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  #41  
Old 01-10-2007, 07:06 PM
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Fly Man Fly Man is offline
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Aztightlines.

Crazy ways will win no battles.
A professional approach is the only way, but pressure can be put on them professionally.
WMR is working on a letter to Mike and Julie.
I am going to do some research on how issues can get on the commission's agenda. If anybody has any helpful information that would be great.
The battle will be hard with government money and bait fishermen as big issues.
Thanks
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  #42  
Old 01-10-2007, 07:07 PM
Cuttbow Cuttbow is offline
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Wow. I figured when I started this thread there would be ample response and I would learn a few things, but...... not this much.
I guess I need to learn more about self-sustaining populations in Arizona streams. I always thought it was so minimal as to be insignificant. Therefore, my point (or question) is, as stated in the beginning, why bother with eradication if it is just a put & take stream? I would love to see more C & R streams, as we all would.
So my new question is, if a stream is completely no-kill, can the Apaches reproduce well enough to maintain a viable fishery? From what I've seen at the west fork of the Black River, in the meadow area designated for Apaches, I'm somewhat skeptical. I'd truly love to see it work, but is it realistic?
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  #43  
Old 01-10-2007, 07:16 PM
aztightlines aztightlines is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fly Man View Post
Aztightlines.

Crazy ways will win no battles.
A professional approach is the only way, but pressure can be put on them professionally.
WMR is working on a letter to Mike and Julie.
I am going to do some research on how issues can get on the commission's agenda. If anybody has any helpful information that would be great.
The battle will be hard with government money and bait fishermen as big issues.
Thanks
I agree, getting crazy will do no good.
Hope you keep in mind what I said before - that "use" is a buzzword these days, and we need to show we are using these fisheries, caring about them is not enough.
Run that letter by us, maybe a few more signatures can get more attention.
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  #44  
Old 01-10-2007, 09:17 PM
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Brown Trout Guy Brown Trout Guy is offline
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The issue is greater than just put and take streams. Most of the streams selected for reintroductions are not put and take streams. The reason Sheeps Crossing was selected was because it had the greatest amounts of spawning substrates in all the White Mountain streams. Spawning success is very crucial to the recovery plan. Most of the streams where renovations have occured will become C&R waters. Apaches can provide a viable fishery if spawning success is high enough. The problem with the West Fork is that it gets a lot of pressure. In areas such as Bear Wallow, Conklin, Hayground and other creeks of that nature, fishing pressure isn't very high. Even in C&R waters mortality rates can be very high due to improper handling techniques.
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  #45  
Old 01-10-2007, 09:55 PM
mjl mjl is offline
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Originally Posted by Brown Trout Guy View Post
Even in C&R waters mortality rates can be very high due to improper handling techniques.
The even larger issue is mortality from ever-present poaching due to lack of enforcement... It's a sad reality all over the West.
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  #46  
Old 01-10-2007, 09:58 PM
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Bigfishjr. Bigfishjr. is offline
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i know u guys have kinda covered this but is there anything that we can do to help against this, either the poaching or helping the apache to come back or what ever we can do to help every stream in arizona for better trout population?
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  #47  
Old 01-11-2007, 08:30 AM
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To answer the question per my conversation with Julie at AZGF.
The only way that Apaches will breed in the stream and build a solid population is to have no non-native trout in the stream.
Apaches and Rainbow will cross breed and a pure Apache trout population will be lost and the project is for not.
Brown trout will only breed with brown trout. The diet of brown trout is the biggest, followed by a rainbow. Apaches have the smallest diet list of all the trout. They will only eat bugs and insects. That is why they grow slower then all the trout.
I will say that Julie was very nice and willing to educate people on all the trout types.
As you can see, to have a long term breeding program in the wild for Apaches is almost impossible.
Like I said in an ealier post the native fish focus will now be on small feeder streams. The East fork and West Fork(other then what already has been done) and other major streams will be off the list.
My point is why spend and throw money at a program that will have little or no long term results.
Spend the money on education and catch and release programs and improve the major streams like East and West fork, Oak creek, Haigler etc.
Thanks
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  #48  
Old 01-11-2007, 08:43 AM
WMF WMF is offline
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Glad to here you got a living soul ! Seems they are hard to get a hold of.
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  #49  
Old 12-24-2011, 07:04 AM
Driftwood Driftwood is offline
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Old thread, really good
Screw the foriegn invaders
I say more natives
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  #50  
Old 12-27-2011, 11:09 AM
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Newby Newby is offline
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Sometimes the G&F make me want to go homicidal, other times, they make me really happy. I was told by a guy at the Riggs Flat campground that the Game and fish had poisoned some of the creeks coming off of Mount Graham (Ash, Soldier, etc...) to remove the very odd looking hybrids which had started to show up. I myself couldnt believe that the game and fish would poison OUR fishing waters. However, this seems like it is not an isolated incident. If it werent for theit prolific stocking programs, though, we would have far fewer fishing oppurtunities, not to mention the way they manage some of these creeks/lakes to become trophy trout waters.
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