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  #11  
Old 07-15-2017, 09:49 AM
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stoneflynut stoneflynut is offline
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"One lion will kill 3-4 ungulates a week," wrote Sasquatch.

AGFD research biologists over past decades have learned through peer reviewed research projects that a mountain lion in Arizona will kill and consume one ungulate every 7-10 days. I only mention this because accurately reported scientifically based research results are important to the debate.
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  #12  
Old 07-16-2017, 08:30 AM
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Sasquatch Sasquatch is offline
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Thank you stoneflynut. I will stand partially corrected on this one. It seems numbers between studies vary greatly. I quoted an older Canadian research I studied in college. Googling it I found a more resent university of Montana study that had a high of .22 ungulates per day. Anyway, the numbers are a lot higher than the Defenders of the Wilderness story that preach to the animal rights activists that it is 10 per year.
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  #13  
Old 07-17-2017, 09:22 AM
Litespeed1 Litespeed1 is offline
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Yeti,

Cattle are not anything like Bison or elk. I completely disagree with you on the effect cattle have on the environment compared to bison and elk.

At least this is what my cousin in Canada who raises bison on a ranch tells me.

Having written that, what environment do cattle come from? How much bigger are they today than they were before they became domesticated and fattened up to feed me? Elk were forced into higher elevations / forested areas while the bison where getting their arses kicked. So they too are not native to mountainous regions however they are much less detrimental to stream banks or meadows. They are not the same as cattle.

Something as simple as providing water to cattle in such a way as to keep them away from the stream bank has produced amazing results. These efforts involved humans fencing it off and then re-creating the stream banks. Time and money well spent.
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  #14  
Old 07-17-2017, 09:25 AM
Litespeed1 Litespeed1 is offline
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Bigfoot,

I think the only thing you and I have in common is we both love Jack Links.
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  #15  
Old 07-18-2017, 08:58 AM
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Sasquatch Sasquatch is offline
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Fencing off yes. Recreating a stream bank, nature does it daily. Unless you need to defer erosion for some kind of construction, let nature do it.

I know, lets import tamaracks to recreate stream banks. Wait, already done that and now we spend mega bucks attempting to eradicate them. Stop playing god.

I don't like jack links. So...

Last edited by Sasquatch; 07-18-2017 at 09:12 AM.
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  #16  
Old 07-19-2017, 09:33 AM
Litespeed1 Litespeed1 is offline
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Hibagon,

What happens to a small cold water trout stream when cattle break down the banks to access water? Does the creek channel flatten out and warm the water? How long does it take for nature to rebuild those stream banks?

I disagree with everything you write. Including your spelling of those trees the Army Corp of Engineers planted to stabilize river banks in the west years ago.

Sorry about that Jack Links comment. I thought I saw you on a tv commercial stealing two camper dudes beef jerky. My bad.
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  #17  
Old 07-20-2017, 11:13 AM
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Sasquatch Sasquatch is offline
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Warp1

Then call them salt cedar. Spelling was correct.

All stream conditions are different and I cannot say how long but I know it will. Don't know if any fish habitat was installed but I didn't see any in the video. Most of the mountain lakes we fish here in the sw were built in riparian areas for ranching. Do we restore them as well?

You implied that the elk and bison had some kind of exodus to the mountains to survive. Though primarily a plains animal it was the ones that dwelled in the mountains that survived the slaughter long enough for conservation efforts to save them.

Fly chef said it was not just for "future" generations but ours as well and I agree. Call it for what it is and stop the guilt trip of doing it for future generations to spend my tax dollars. Not that we get to vote on it anyway.

I need to say that I appreciate a forum where a debate over topics that those have lost their lives for remains civil. Most fly fisherman are gentlemanly enough to agree to disagree

Last edited by Sasquatch; 07-20-2017 at 11:20 AM.
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  #18  
Old 08-01-2017, 09:19 AM
Litespeed1 Litespeed1 is offline
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Big hairy ape man

Hmmm...sorry for the delayed response. Might the fact that your incorrect spelling of the tree you mention also point to your lack of detailed research overall?

A "tamarack" is a completely different type of tree than a "tamarisk" and cant grow in the desert. You got the easy part wrong, so in my opinion you got the hard part wrong too.

So hit the books. Don't fall for the conjecture you previously write of. Do your own research and come to a more thoroughly researched conclusion then get back to us.

Question: is that you in the footage from the 70's? Where you look back at the camera?

Also, I don't feel any guilt trip place upon me by efforts to help restore nature. Your logic makes me feel like you wouldn't vote for a library for those who read.

I too appreciate the banter here. And although I push the envelope a bit here and there please know I respect your opinion and writing, I just want to change yours as much as you wish to change mine.

Last edited by Litespeed1; 08-01-2017 at 09:26 AM.
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  #19  
Old 08-04-2017, 10:13 AM
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Sasquatch Sasquatch is offline
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Peddle pusher

Thanks for clearing that up, for now on I will call them tamarix and use the google so I to can be an Einstein.

It's the " future generations" statements and money spent that could improve the now. Nature can do a lot on its own and if we can afford to help it along well that's fine. But I would rather see campgrounds, rest areas and roads remain open.

Is it true that the seats cause male riders to become impotent? Hate for the world to lose your genetic line.

Last edited by Sasquatch; 08-04-2017 at 10:19 AM.
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  #20  
Old 08-04-2017, 02:17 PM
Litespeed1 Litespeed1 is offline
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I had to watch the video again to try and understand why it compelled your writing in the first place. I agree with everything in the presentation and salute those who put in the time effort and money into this type of work.

As for you.......the only part of my writing that I goggled was different names for your handle. Peddle pusher? Funny, now I know why this video caused your reaction. The Music must have touched your sensitive side and made you angry.

Is that a male Sasquatch I see behind you on your avatar? And do you have a smile on your face? Cool.
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