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  #11  
Old 10-25-2017, 01:28 PM
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Joe, I do really like that theory of cutthroat passing over the LCR and mingling with the Gilas in that area producing AT. It would give reasoning to the Gilas encompassing the AT range.
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  #12  
Old 10-25-2017, 03:52 PM
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Almostlost,

After my native trout mentor reviewed Dr.B's 1992 Apache trout paper, it was published in the winter 1993 issue of TU magazine.
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  #13  
Old 10-25-2017, 04:20 PM
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It seems highly likely that trout populations spread into the Little Colorado, White and Black River drainages in the cienegas around what is now the Big/ Sunrise/ area above Greer. Heavy water years could have resulted in one large cienega up there and the fish could transfer.

Where they originally came from is the question: I tend to believe they came up from the Colorado River, Sea of Cortez, via Salt/Gila as some sort of steelhead strain, got isolated and evolved into apache and gila trout. Interesting thought they might have come up the Little Colorado, maybe before the canyon was as deep as it currently is - but kind of hard to visualize fish scaling all that elevation up the the rim by Cameron, then up to Holbrook, etc.

Fun stuff to ponder, so I wish I had more geological knowledge and some evidence of how the fish got up on the Mogollon Rim to inhabit the creeks.

Last edited by aztightlines; 10-25-2017 at 07:54 PM.
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  #14  
Old 10-26-2017, 09:11 AM
Bucksnort Bucksnort is offline
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Almost,

Or is that "fishfull thinking"?
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  #15  
Old 10-26-2017, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aztightlines View Post
It seems highly likely that trout populations spread into the Little Colorado, White and Black River drainages in the cienegas around what is now the Big/ Sunrise/ area above Greer. Heavy water years could have resulted in one large cienega up there and the fish could transfer.

Where they originally came from is the question: I tend to believe they came up from the Colorado River, Sea of Cortez, via Salt/Gila as some sort of steelhead strain, got isolated and evolved into apache and gila trout. Interesting thought they might have come up the Little Colorado, maybe before the canyon was as deep as it currently is - but kind of hard to visualize fish scaling all that elevation up the the rim by Cameron, then up to Holbrook, etc.

Fun stuff to ponder, so I wish I had more geological knowledge and some evidence of how the fish got up on the Mogollon Rim to inhabit the creeks.
If you can track down the papers from Miller (1950) and Miller (1972), they have some interesting discussion about the geological history of the area, as well as to some thoughts about origin of Apache/Gila trouts.

I'll try to post them here as attachments for those interested at a later date....

USFWS has been working on and off with Navajo Nation over the years looking at potential for CRC in Arizona in streams on the Navajo Nation. There was a specimen of what looked like CRC taken from one of those streams a long time ago that Behnke thought was CRC based on his inspection. Unfortunately, that museum specimen has been lost...
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  #16  
Old 10-26-2017, 10:25 PM
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JV,

3-4 years ago, Benett ,last name, from USFWS showed some cutthroat photos from a Navajo Nation stream(s). My comment was that the NN has been stocking YCT into their lakes since the early 70s. I have not heard or do not remember any conclusions that were drawn from Benett's work.
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  #17  
Old 10-26-2017, 10:34 PM
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JV,

3-4 years ago, Benett ,last name, from USFWS showed some cutthroat photos from a Navajo Nation stream(s). My comment was that the NN has been stocking YCT into their lakes since the early 70s. I have not heard or do not remember any conclusions that were drawn from Benett's work.
Interestingly, Joe, those "cutthroat" were genetically analyzed by a lab, and the results showed them to be 100% rainbow!
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  #18  
Old 10-26-2017, 10:50 PM
aztightlines aztightlines is offline
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Are there any theories of what fish the apaches and gilas evolved from?

As I understand it, they are neither rainbows or cutthroats...curious about their lineage, if that is known. This stuff is fascinating to me, and I appreciate your interest and knowledge, Jeremy and Joe.
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  #19  
Old 10-26-2017, 10:52 PM
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Now I do remember the conclusion. It is not right, because the images were cutthroat but likely not pure. I would get a second opinion. I may still have those images. I was expecting some YCT, possibly some rainbow, and who knows maybe some CRC.
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Last edited by joe; 10-26-2017 at 11:01 PM.
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  #20  
Old 10-26-2017, 11:01 PM
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AZtightlines,

As far as I have read: AT, GT, and the several Mexican trouts are all Rainbow lineage.
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Last edited by joe; 10-26-2017 at 11:05 PM.
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