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  #21  
Old 12-17-2017, 09:36 AM
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Westy Westy is offline
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It's all about the money backing these projects and the jobs it has created. The entire fish management plan for the Grand Canyon is not logical. They continue to try new experiments and more aggressive tactics to wipe out trout numbers especially browns. Fortunately AZG&F listens and I think values the public opinion on proposed projects.

NPS is out right slaughtering brown trout throughout the Colorado and it's tributaries. For anyone that never had the chance to fish for browns in the Canyon, it was a special fishery and one of the best in the southwest.

Below the dam the river is not a natural state and native fish habitat. It never will be unless the dam is removed. With all the agencies and organizations changing water flows, temperatures, killing off wild self sustainable fish populations among a host of other experiments and projects on the river. Its so short sighted and I think a huge waste of money.

Its not a sustainable or logical proposed project the NPS has.
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  #22  
Old 12-18-2017, 12:43 PM
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T Gunn T Gunn is offline
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I'm not sure if fly fishers are gifted with "common sense" or if we become that way as fly fishers. Either way, the majority of comments here represent a great deal of something that Will Rodgers claimed: "was not that common...common sense." I just wish that the rest of the world saw things as most of you do.
Please continue this discussion but also see my new post on Comments for Lees Ferry Action Alert.
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  #23  
Old 12-18-2017, 01:05 PM
bgiordano bgiordano is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPoppa View Post
It's intriguing to me to think that this same agency the (N.P.S.) is okay with brown trout in numerous bodies of waters throughout Yellowstone are okay with brownies mucking out native Yellowstone cutties.
Regardless of opinions of the NPS proposal at Lees Ferry, this is not correct when it comes to Yellowstone.

The Yellowstone Cutthroat Trout recovery populations in the Park are currently threatened by Lake Trout and Rainbow Trout. There is currently not a threat from browns on YCT in the Park. The furthest browns have made it in YCT recovery areas in the Park (Native Trout Conservation Area) is Knowles Falls on the Yellowstone River. The watershed upstream of Knowles Falls is void of browns; this is includes the upper Yellowstone, Lamar River, Soda Butte Creek, Yellowstone Lake, etc.

There are currently management practices in place to try and mitigate damage to YCT populations in the recovery area from Rainbows and Lakers.

I just wanted this to be clear so that NPS-Yellowstone Fisheries is not represented incorrectly.
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  #24  
Old 12-19-2017, 06:50 AM
AZ FISHING GUIDES AZ FISHING GUIDES is offline
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MYT1- perhaps some research on your part before stirring the pot? There was nothing self serving at all about the comments made at the meeting last week. The reality is that the water coming out of the damn is too cold for the chub, one of the many reasons for their decline in this section of river. Hence their resurgence in the lower reaches where temps are warmer. The chubs are teeming down stream. And btw- electro fishing kills other species, including rainbows and other native fish. It’s called “bycatch”. I have the photos to prove it should you like to see them. This is a lose/lose for all fish. Period, end of story...



Quote:
Originally Posted by MYT1 View Post
I was at the meeting.

The problem isn't Brown Trout co-habitating with Rainbow Trout.

The problem is with Brown Trout co-habitating with the native fish in the Colorado River, like the Humpback Chub.

Apparently, Brown Trout, Rainbow Trout not so much, are very aggressive at eating Humpback Chub.

The NPS is also under mandate to enforce the Engangered Species Act, plus I'm sure a lot of other laws aimed at preserving the Grand Canyon in as natural a state as possible.

I think the NPS should have all the tools they need at their disposal to achieve this nearly impossible task, as long as there is plenty of public input before they implement some of the more drastic measures, such as chemically killing fish, or building permanent barriers and pipe systems.

I'm a huge fly fishing guy, but I'm an even more huge environmental guy.

I thought the meeting on Tuesday was filled with a lot of self-serving fly fisherman who only cared about keeping there beloved fishing and the envirnment be damned.
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  #25  
Old 12-19-2017, 05:29 PM
MYT1 MYT1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ FISHING GUIDES View Post
MYT1- perhaps some research on your part before stirring the pot? There was nothing self serving at all about the comments made at the meeting last week. The reality is that the water coming out of the damn is too cold for the chub, one of the many reasons for their decline in this section of river. Hence their resurgence in the lower reaches where temps are warmer. The chubs are teeming down stream. And btw- electro fishing kills other species, including rainbows and other native fish. It’s called “bycatch”. I have the photos to prove it should you like to see them. This is a lose/lose for all fish. Period, end of story...
Thank you, I guess maybe I drank the NPS Koolaid a little too quickly. I'm now taking a few deep breaths.

I do have a couple of questions and a comment about electro-fishing though.

Last year I backpacked into Gunnison Gorge. Much to my chagrin, when I got to the bottom of the gorge BLM was electrocuting fish to do a fish count. By the way, I couldn't believe how big some of the fish were they pulled out of that river.

Anyway, after counting the fish they were immediately put back into the river. Amazingly, the fishing in the area of the counting wasn't that bad immediately after the shocking. Also, I didn't see any dead fish, but this didn't mean there weren't any. By the next day fishing seemed to be back to normal. This year when I visited Gunnison Gorge, albeit not the exact same location, fishing was borderline great.

If in the Grand Canyon they were to do something similar, but pull out the Brown Trout instead of returning them to the river, wouldn't that go a long ways to achieving the goals of the NPS?

Also, without so many Brown Trout would that in some way help the Rainbow Trout, possibly due to lack of competition?

I'm just trying to understand this s**t.
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  #26  
Old 12-19-2017, 07:39 PM
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Westy Westy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MYT1 View Post
Thank you, I guess maybe I drank the NPS Koolaid a little too quickly. I'm now taking a few deep breaths.

I do have a couple of questions and a comment about electro-fishing though.

Last year I backpacked into Gunnison Gorge. Much to my chagrin, when I got to the bottom of the gorge BLM was electrocuting fish to do a fish count. By the way, I couldn't believe how big some of the fish were they pulled out of that river.

Anyway, after counting the fish they were immediately put back into the river. Amazingly, the fishing in the area of the counting wasn't that bad immediately after the shocking. Also, I didn't see any dead fish, but this didn't mean there weren't any. By the next day fishing seemed to be back to normal. This year when I visited Gunnison Gorge, albeit not the exact same location, fishing was borderline great.

If in the Grand Canyon they were to do something similar, but pull out the Brown Trout instead of returning them to the river, wouldn't that go a long ways to achieving the goals of the NPS?

Also, without so many Brown Trout would that in some way help the Rainbow Trout, possibly due to lack of competition?

I'm just trying to understand this s**t.
I don't believe the answer to improving the native fish populations is by killing off a wild self sustaining brown trout population and also in the process impacting the rainbow trout fishery. I believe its waste of a great resource AND a waste of money to continue and support the NPS fish management plans in the future.

Lee's Ferry and the Grand Canyon are a great economic resource to the region and one of the big reasons is recreational value - trout populations. Negatively impacting the trout fishery in any way or means will undoubtedly decline the local economy of the region.

As stated prior, the biggest problem is the water temperature. The brown trout have been in the canyon for 100 years. The chub populations are alive and well in places in which the water temperature and overall habitat is suited to their needs. NPS is reaching too far and trying to create a "native" environment that is just not logical given the facts, habitat and fish populations.

Instead of trying to improve the wild trout fishery in this man made environment, NPS wants to destroy it. Speak up and send letters, phone calls, emails, etc to them.
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  #27  
Old 12-20-2017, 08:40 AM
Litespeed1 Litespeed1 is offline
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Having to defend, again, an incredible MAN MADE area for our recreation drives me crazy.
Unfortunately we cant give up and have to comment and stand up for what we know to be factual. I am a true believer in a balance between areas where we humans get to recreate and areas where we leave it alone to keep all of our native species. The Colorado River below that giant concrete man made thing is a place to recreate.

Remember there are NO browns in the Ferry. Remember there are NO browns in ANY AZ stream. Remember there ARE trolls on this website and every time we post a picture of one of those brownish trout fish the trolls take note.
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  #28  
Old 12-20-2017, 07:51 PM
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lostdutchman lostdutchman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Litespeed1 View Post
Having to defend, again, an incredible MAN MADE area for our recreation drives me crazy.
Unfortunately we cant give up and have to comment and stand up for what we know to be factual. I am a true believer in a balance between areas where we humans get to recreate and areas where we leave it alone to keep all of our native species. The Colorado River below that giant concrete man made thing is a place to recreate.

Remember there are NO browns in the Ferry. Remember there are NO browns in ANY AZ stream. Remember there ARE trolls on this website and every time we post a picture of one of those brownish trout fish the trolls take note.
Quoted for truth.

If it’s any consolation. The Colorado river fish management and native species debate doesn’t even scratch the surface to the **** we have to deal with up here ( Pacific Northwest) in regards to wild/ Native Fish, dams, water management, etc.

Like had been mentioned before, it all comes down to money and jobs created with “solving problems” Eradication of brown trout has made its way to the top of the importance list, and once they’re gone, they’ll find another scapegoat, or even another “problem” to solve. Like it or not, it’s a business. But, we all can and should play along and do our parts, fight for what we love, whatever that may be, and maybe convince them of a different solution to the problem.
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