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  #231  
Old 03-19-2014, 04:22 PM
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steraser steraser is offline
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  #232  
Old 03-19-2014, 04:48 PM
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[QUOTE=steraser;155243]You will find only what you bring .
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agreed! I guess I will have to personally investigate...
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  #233  
Old 03-19-2014, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by osteen View Post
I just read most of the posts in this thread, and wish I could somehow have that half hour of my life back.

Has Haigler been poisoned yet?
Is fishing it a waste of time this weekend?
The answer to your question is actually in the thread... There goes another half hr of your life!
On the serious side, the answer is there.
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  #234  
Old 03-19-2014, 06:56 PM
BamaRon BamaRon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by osteen View Post
I just read most of the posts in this thread, and wish I could somehow have that half hour of my life back. Hopefully you will all someday solve the mystery of who is smarter, who catches more fish, who has discovered the deep mysteries of trout fishing, who can **** further, etc. etc. In the mean time, I will be busy ACTUALLY FISHING.

Does anyone have any real information on this topic?

Has Haigler been poisoned yet?
Is fishing it a waste of time this weekend?
Had you actually read (or even skimmed) just a few of the posts in this thread you would know that it will be months before Haigler Creek is poisoned - I"m guessing spring of 2015.
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  #235  
Old 03-19-2014, 07:34 PM
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Hard to imagine that fishing anywhere is a waste of a weekend. There's plenty of other water around if you can't find a fish in Haigler.
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  #236  
Old 03-20-2014, 09:22 AM
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awesome- thanks you guys!
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  #237  
Old 07-28-2014, 07:35 PM
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Warrior63 Warrior63 is offline
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Bring out your dead!

This is an interesting thread, it will certainly be interesting to see how it turns out.

I have done quite a bit of research on Gila's lately, and found they all agree that the original habitat is unknown, but surmised by being part of the Gila river drainage and the presence of suspected co-existing chub.

I have some theories as to why I have reason to doubt the Tonto Basin was not native a Gila trout repository. The first is the Gila River itself, there was a comment that if the trout could live in the Gila, they could live in Haigler. I don't believe this is true. I don't believe the GT could have move through the Salt then back up to the Verde and Agua Fria, never actually touching the Gila. If they ever were moving up the Gila by way of the Colorado it only could have been accomplished during the last Ice age when the water was much cooler.

From my understanding that is how trout came to be, though relic landlocked populations cut off from the ocean from receding glaciers.

If this was the case, GT (or variants) would be found all through the CO river drainage. Since this is not the case, another option is that the fish did move through salt and verde when the water was cooler during the Ice age. I don't believe this to be the case either.

The reason for this whole long bit of nonsense is this: We know full well rainbows and browns and brookies are not native to AZ (or even the US). However, there are some small remote creeks (not haigler) that have very nice naturally reproducing populations of all three on or under the rim. Why are they there? It would have been pure **** to stock them between the late 1800s-mid 1900s. There was even a small stream that had a hatchery on it. Why would early AZ settlers have gone through all the trouble to stock rainbrows, browns, and brookies into these small remote streams if they already had populations of GT? It makes no sense at all that people would do this, since one of the points of these stockings was as a food source, presumably for miners. There is no indication of these people wiping out the entire population of fish in all these creeks. there is also no indication of mining on any of them, meaning no mining chemicals were dumped in to kill off the fish on accident.

We know there are/were at least 4 populations of wild and pure GT (there were 5, but one was found to be hybridized) on/near the border of AZ and NM. So it is possible for the GT to survive in remote areas to today. Why didn't a single one survive in the Tonto/Verde drainage, or even the very nearby LCR basin?

I am sorry for the long (and very possibly completely wrong) post here. I love the idea of reintroducing native fish to their home range, but I would like to know it was their home range before we ruin a great fishery by poisoning it out. I know this is an old post, but has there been any current discussion on it?

Thank you all and good luck out there!
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  #238  
Old 07-29-2014, 07:34 AM
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azshtr azshtr is offline
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Interesting write up. Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior63 View Post
This is an interesting thread, it will certainly be interesting to see how it turns out.

I have done quite a bit of research on Gila's lately, and found they all agree that the original habitat is unknown, but surmised by being part of the Gila river drainage and the presence of suspected co-existing chub.

I have some theories as to why I have reason to doubt the Tonto Basin was not native a Gila trout repository. The first is the Gila River itself, there was a comment that if the trout could live in the Gila, they could live in Haigler. I don't believe this is true. I don't believe the GT could have move through the Salt then back up to the Verde and Agua Fria, never actually touching the Gila. If they ever were moving up the Gila by way of the Colorado it only could have been accomplished during the last Ice age when the water was much cooler.

From my understanding that is how trout came to be, though relic landlocked populations cut off from the ocean from receding glaciers.

If this was the case, GT (or variants) would be found all through the CO river drainage. Since this is not the case, another option is that the fish did move through salt and verde when the water was cooler during the Ice age. I don't believe this to be the case either.

The reason for this whole long bit of nonsense is this: We know full well rainbows and browns and brookies are not native to AZ (or even the US). However, there are some small remote creeks (not haigler) that have very nice naturally reproducing populations of all three on or under the rim. Why are they there? It would have been pure **** to stock them between the late 1800s-mid 1900s. There was even a small stream that had a hatchery on it. Why would early AZ settlers have gone through all the trouble to stock rainbrows, browns, and brookies into these small remote streams if they already had populations of GT? It makes no sense at all that people would do this, since one of the points of these stockings was as a food source, presumably for miners. There is no indication of these people wiping out the entire population of fish in all these creeks. there is also no indication of mining on any of them, meaning no mining chemicals were dumped in to kill off the fish on accident.

We know there are/were at least 4 populations of wild and pure GT (there were 5, but one was found to be hybridized) on/near the border of AZ and NM. So it is possible for the GT to survive in remote areas to today. Why didn't a single one survive in the Tonto/Verde drainage, or even the very nearby LCR basin?

I am sorry for the long (and very possibly completely wrong) post here. I love the idea of reintroducing native fish to their home range, but I would like to know it was their home range before we ruin a great fishery by poisoning it out. I know this is an old post, but has there been any current discussion on it?

Thank you all and good luck out there!
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  #239  
Old 07-29-2014, 09:13 AM
lando lando is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior63 View Post
The reason for this whole long bit of nonsense is this: We know full well rainbows and browns and brookies are not native to AZ (or even the US).
There are actually quite a few strains of rainbows that are native to the US. Steelhead, Redbands, Goldens, Beardslee..................
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  #240  
Old 07-29-2014, 09:31 AM
Seldomseen Seldomseen is offline
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And Brook Char are native to eastern North America.
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