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Old 08-23-2012, 12:22 AM
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Caleb and David Malboeuf

11041 acres per hour spent in "jail"..
Here is to the "two cousins who grew up living in and loving Arizona's wilderness."

May you have a cholla cactus shoved up your rectum every hour on the hour while your in jail..
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Old 08-23-2012, 06:28 AM
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Unreal. 48 hours for destroying and killing a forest worth of life. If they had been smoking a joint, they could be serving years......
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Old 08-23-2012, 07:23 AM
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Wonder if the forest service guys that were in charge of that miss-managed forest will get anything? That forest was a complete wreck they were bringing in other forest service employees to show them how bad it was. Don't get me wrong, anyone who leaves a fire unattended or fails to put them out properly deserves to get punished, but the fire should have never been that bad if the forest was managed proper to start with!
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Old 08-23-2012, 07:52 AM
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There's a lot of finger pointing out there that all carry weight.
Miss-managed forest.
Drought.
Local communities putting pressure on Forest service to lift fire restrictions so as to not adversely affect summer economics.
Allowing fires before the monsoon had really taken affect.
A delay in attacking the fire.

No amount of jail time or penalty will prevent the next massive fire situation unless fires are banned in wild areas in this DRY, DROUGHT STRICKEN, DENSELY FORESTED (whats left) state, until the rains return, and the forest is healthy.

Want a fire while camping? Go park your car next to Woods Canyon and have a fire in a ring. OR continue with our same attitudes and say bye bye to whats left of AZ forests, because the forests aren't regenerating at the same rate we are burning them down and they won't grow completely back until the next legitimate wet cycle which whether that will ever come is another debate.......
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Old 08-23-2012, 08:02 AM
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Perhaps the forest will return to a natural burn cycle... I'm only saying this because I like to play the Devil's advocate but, I've read some opinions regarding letting the forests burn to restore a natural level of growth that is fire resistant...
Anybody with a bigger brain than mine want to help us understand the battle between natural forests and mountain communities with a healthy fear of fire?
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Old 08-23-2012, 08:31 AM
Litespeed1 Litespeed1 is offline
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My understanding is when the forests burn extensively they typically grow back very dense, not unlike when they are clear cut. So ultimately the same problem will exist.

If the forests were more similar to the way they were historically then you can let a fire roll through it because the spacing of the trees allows for the fire to burn the undergrowth and younger trees keeping the tree spacing optimal for the regions climate. The fire can't reach the crowns of the big trees so doesn't decimate the forest. Now with our states drought condition and general warming some of our ponderosa forests will be replaced by juniper, oak or manzanita (sp) as these plants are more adapted to dryer conditions... which then creates a slightly warmer environment...stream water temps raise, no more trout, area becomes dryer and on and on and on.

In very high elevations where a fire occurs the conifer will hopefully be replaced by Aspens in the short term (and last for 100 years) and slowly evolve back to spruce and firs until the next fire.... As long as the higher elevations continue to receive their typically higher rain amounts.

I think it's of utmost importance to have wild areas and to be able to recreate in nature.
So I am always seeking a balance. I like to fish for trout in moving water. Forest fires affect trout waters adversely. Fire already took away my ability to fish for trout on the Black for who knows how long. If I couldn't fish for wild trout at Lees Ferry I would move from this state.
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Old 08-23-2012, 08:42 AM
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3,000,000 acres burned in Texas last summer with 6000 structures destroyed. This happened all on private land.No federal public land was involved.
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Old 08-23-2012, 08:58 AM
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What a JOKE!!!!! From the article,
""When they left, they assumed the fire was out. They did not dig it out or throw water on the fire. David threw a candy wrapper on the fire, and it did not curl up, but nothing else was done by either of them to assure that the fire was fully extinguished," according to court documents. "As Caleb told the probation officer, 'That's where we made our mistake.'"
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Old 08-23-2012, 09:57 AM
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If more guilty folks were strongly punished when caught breaking law, and the consequences were made aware to the public, perhaps other"CAMPFIRE LIGHTERS" would be extremely cautious before leaving a put-out fire, having heard what happened.

It's the same with those folks fishing at say, Woods Canyon Lake" who never bother to buy a fishing license, and take home more that their limit.

It Game and Fish were to send out rangers to check licenses and limits,and posted the amount of people busted, the state of Arizona would be flush with money for fishing and hunting improvements. In all my years fishing, I can count on one hand the amount of times I've been checked by a ranger.....
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Old 08-23-2012, 10:30 AM
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Where to start......

There are so many things that could be done differently it boggles the mind. Problem is they all cost money - TAX money - which nobody wants to pay.

Game and Fish has had their funding reduced. Rangers need to be paid, and fines won't cover the costs entirely.

Forest service has had their funding reduced. Forest management costs money. Private lumber companies have no interest in proper forest management. Undergrowth has no value for them. They make money from old growth large mature trees. When you cut those you get more undergrowth - fuel for large fires.

Park service has lost funding. Rangers to check camp sites and educate campers about fires cost money.

Virtually every area of natural resource management has lost funding.

Reality is the communities that were pressuring for reduced fire restrictions are suffering from a reduced tax base. They have to make money when they can. the businesses in those communities rely on summer camper and visitor income. That income has dropped in large part because people can't afford vacations like we used to. Because our incomes have shrunk - or stagnated - while our cost of living has increased.


Rant over.
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