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  #11  
Old 11-27-2018, 12:53 PM
lakelady lakelady is offline
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https://www.azcentral.com/story/opin...an/2030104002/

I don't know if you guys have seen this recent report about the huge water shortage the west is in. It's hard to have great tailwater fisheries now when many areas are not getting the snowpack they used to.

Some of the great western tailwater fisheries are in places that still get huge amounts of rain and snowfall every year. And I bet if you looked at the ones that are in the southwest, you would find they're also doing worse than they used to be.
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  #12  
Old 11-27-2018, 01:05 PM
lakelady lakelady is offline
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Originally Posted by almostlost View Post
One of the issues I've heard with the decrease in wild trout is due to lack of food. Then they say they're going to introduce more fish? But they'll tell you the stockers wont have an impact on food availability for the wild fish.

Another thing is that every time there is a die off of the wild trout, the ones that survive are the strongest (hence survival of the fittest) however they can be susceptible to new diseases brought in by weak hatchery stock. Although the g&f states that this is highly unlikely due to the quality of the stock fish, why take the chance and why mess with natural selection?

It also amazes me that they're trying to eradicate the "non-native" browns due to their predatory nature, but then they'll stock a fish that is basically bred just to eat!?!
What you described is not what Darwin meant by natural selection and "survival of the fittest". Fitness and Survival are not synonyms. Survival usually has nothing to do with how "strong" an individual is and fitness in biological terms has to do with reproductive success. I would suggest reading up on evolutionary theory a little before throwing those terms around.

Also, how are browns anything but non-native?
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Old 11-27-2018, 06:45 PM
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almostlost almostlost is offline
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Originally Posted by lakelady View Post
What you described is not what Darwin meant by natural selection and "survival of the fittest". Fitness and Survival are not synonyms. Survival usually has nothing to do with how "strong" an individual is and fitness in biological terms has to do with reproductive success. I would suggest reading up on evolutionary theory a little before throwing those terms around.

Also, how are browns anything but non-native?

"Survival of the fittest" is a phrase that originated from Darwinian evolutionary theory as a way of describing the mechanism of natural selection. The biological concept of fitness is defined as reproductive success. In Darwinian terms the phrase is best understood as "Survival of the form that will leave the most copies of itself in successive generations."

If I'm talking about the fish which have survived disease and certain conditions to procreate while other fish have died off, are these not the ones who are going to leave the most copies of themselves?

The sign states non-native brown trout, and leaves out "non-native" when describing rainbow trout, eluding to the assumption that the rainbows are native. This could lead to less informed anglers thinking they are helping out the "native" rainbows by killing the non-native browns, and I think was done on purpose.
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Old 11-27-2018, 07:03 PM
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almostlost almostlost is offline
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After all is said and done, it's a human made environment that was stocked with trout, to be manipulated as such. It's just sad when instant gratification (stocked fish) trumps quality. I know the NPS are the ones after the browns (at least mainly,) and when they are talking about increasing fees, while at the same time spending buku bucks fighting a loosing battle, it just doesn't sit well with me and makes me wonder what else they're throwing money and resources at.

I also know that AZG&F are putting in the good work reintroducing native species, and working with vets. Thanks Bryan and all you other folks!
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