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-   -   Government Shutdown could Close Lees Ferry (http://www.azflyandtie.com/flyforum/showthread.php?t=9189)

T Gunn 04-07-2011 05:57 AM

Government Shutdown could Close Lees Ferry
 
FYI, if the Government shutdown does occur, Glen Canyon National Recreation Area will be closed. If an agreement on the budget has not been reached by midnight, 4/08/11, the park will be closed and no one can enter. I'm not sure if the park would close at midnight on Friday or wait until Monday morning. We will post an update on our river report at leesferry.com as soon as we know.

I'm sure that you all can imagine how I feel about this BS. This is the peak fishing season at Lees Ferry and we currently have people traveling and scheduled to travel from all over the country to come fish Lees Ferry. The last time there was a Gov shutdown I had a customer travel all the way from Japan to fish the Ferry for 4 days and we could not enter the Park.

In addition to fishing, all Grand Canyon raft trips, both commercial and private will not be able to launch. Commercial rafting season just began this last week and there are going to be a bunch of mad people!

Remember all this at election time.

Driwash 04-07-2011 06:15 AM

Does this mean that all the people that are camping thru out the national parks will have to leave? And no refunds ether.

It's time we take out country back.

ac guy 04-07-2011 07:59 AM

That sucks.

DesertGhost 04-07-2011 08:12 AM

here is what I dont get, its national land. we as citizens have the right to use that land. how can they really close it? sure the personnel wont be there. but there are a LOT of use who dont need them around anyway. . . . just a pet peeve of mine.

Driwash 04-07-2011 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DesertGhost (Post 98146)
here is what I dont get, its national land. we as citizens have the right to use that land. how can they really close it? sure the personnel wont be there. but there are a LOT of use who dont need them around anyway. . . . just a pet peeve of mine.

And we should not have to pay fees to use the land, our taxes should cover this!:mad:

mharri 04-07-2011 09:12 AM

Go around the gate with a mountain bike and fish the walk in...

If I have a guy in from Japan I would get him down to some water. From what I understand there are other less-known options up there if you are willing to hike that couldn't really be "shut down" by closing a gate. Of course, there would not be a boat involved.

zugbug99 04-07-2011 10:40 AM

Ooooh Noooo!
 
Hi everyone,
New to the forum. I hate to admit this but I have not beeen flyfishing in 3 years. Living in Mesa, AZ makes it a little more work than when I grew up as a kid in Utah and could walk to the local streams. Work, and life has pulled me in other directions. So I was planning to take my 14 foot Larson boat to Lee's Ferry and launch Friday. My brother who lives in SLC, Utah was going to drive down to meet me.
We were planning on camping on the upper sand bars and really looking forward to fishing until Monday when we would have to return home.

So, what chance would I have of launching prior to the shutdown Friday midnight EST, would the rangers ride upriver to throw us out?
Or, would we likely be locked in on Monday morning when we would return to try to leave?

Right now, I'm PO'd about the whole lack of leadership in our great country.

Possibly we could meet over at the San Juan River instead and walk.

Any other suggestions if the Fery is closed to get in some great fishing and camping together aroung the Southern UT, Northern AZ border?

THank you for your assistance!

Tight Lines!:confused:

mharri 04-07-2011 10:45 AM

Southern UT stuff is all blow out from what I hear... At least the stuff up the 89 (Seveir system). If you are thinking St. George area, don't think that is worth the drive :)

How do the gates into the park lock? If you get trapped in you could always take some bolt cutters or just get a nice dent in your bumper :)

I bet if they shut it down someone would come up river and tell you to get out.

AzMandella 04-07-2011 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Driwash (Post 98142)

It's time we take out country back.

This is what they are doing. The spending is way out of control and the left doesn't want to stop spending. :confused: Ifeel sorry for people like Terry eceryone else who makes a living in national parks.

fshfanatic 04-07-2011 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AzMandella (Post 98160)
This is what they are doing. The spending is way out of control and the left doesn't want to stop spending. :confused: Ifeel sorry for people like Terry eceryone else who makes a living in national parks.

I feel sorry for all hard working Americans that are getting bent over by our govt.

Blueline 04-07-2011 12:33 PM

zugbug99 welcome back to the maddness, enjoy your trip! I think Terry stated Aug. 8, 2011. We still need your voice, as well as all of ours to be heard.

FishJunkee 04-07-2011 12:37 PM

579 days util the 2012 presidential election. Those of us not on the "Hope and Change" bandwagon need to make our voices heard in 2012!

Hang in there, and God bless the USA!

Htrain 04-07-2011 12:43 PM

Now I know this is wrong, and not the answer, but my understanding is that it "our" national park. So what would they get me for if I did cut the lock on the gate and go use the resource that I have paid for and funded? My boat is licensed, I have a yearly pass for entrance. Would it be trespassing? And if so, how?

BGG 04-07-2011 12:57 PM

And even if you are trespassing, would there be federal law enforcement "on the clock" to do anything?

fshfanatic 04-07-2011 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Htrain (Post 98167)
Now I know this is wrong, and not the answer, but my understanding is that it "our" national park. So what would they get me for if I did cut the lock on the gate and go use the resource that I have paid for and funded? My boat is licensed, I have a yearly pass for entrance. Would it be trespassing? And if so, how?

Because it is closed.

Htrain 04-07-2011 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fshfanatic (Post 98172)
Because it is closed.

I see. How can you legally close or keep me off something I own, rather than an impending safety concern? I'm being serious here, not looking for the short answer. I'm curious if anybody actually knows the law on this. Thats what I'm asking.

bhickfish 04-07-2011 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AzMandella (Post 98160)
This is what they are doing. The spending is way out of control and the left doesn't want to stop spending. :confused: Ifeel sorry for people like Terry eceryone else who makes a living in national parks.

The democrats acctually are in favor of 30 billion in cuts instead of 66billion. Sounds like meeting halfway to me.

Flygirl 04-07-2011 02:18 PM

This is OUR land... how do they "close" OUR forest? What are they paying or doing? Stop putting up fences and I don't need a concrete bathroom in the middle of the woods. Leave the woods alone and let us fish.

This is a great place to fish ran by great people. I can't believe that making it unable to enter is even possilble.

fshfanatic 04-07-2011 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Htrain (Post 98173)
I see. How can you legally close or keep me off something I own, rather than an impending safety concern? I'm being serious here, not looking for the short answer. I'm curious if anybody actually knows the law on this. Thats what I'm asking.

Technically YOU dont own it. The US Gov owns it. YOU elect people to impose laws that YOU have to follow.. This would be one of those laws.

mountainhrse 04-07-2011 03:09 PM

yeah volunteer at a park or forest near you
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Driwash (Post 98142)
Does this mean that all the people that are camping thru out the national parks will have to leave? And no refunds ether.

It's time we take out country back.

I agree but as a former NPS, AZ State park Ranger etc, and now army veteran student, too many people complain about the services at parks and the cost, but remember most of these public servants are working for 10 dollars a hour or less, working long hours without overtime, or working at entrance stations , then going on search and rescue missions for unprepared weekend warriors, and not spending ANY time withour own famalies, or having time to recreate (ironically) in the forests, lakes, parks etc we work at.. so please think about volunteering as if we don't maintain all those restrooms, build those fish structures, keep water flowing out of dams etc, there won't be any nature left, if these tea baggers privatize everything!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

mountainhrse 04-07-2011 03:17 PM

can't you get a ride to the 200 foot wide Salt river or Verde, or drive 45 minutes to the 15 Mogollon Rim Trout streams availible up highway 87?? I have been all over the Wastch range, and incidentlly I'm from Montana, and the Mesa/Phoenix metro area is as close to great trout fishing as most of Salt Lake City, Provo etc, and Arizona probably has smallmouth bass and channel catfish in the same pools... You don't have to drive all the way to Lees ferry,
thatmakes no sense with the East Verde, White and Black Rivers, Haigler, tonto creek, even tiny Workmen Creek in the Sierra Achas is relatively close to mesa, just a thought...

Quote:

Originally Posted by zugbug99 (Post 98155)
Hi everyone,
New to the forum. I hate to admit this but I have not beeen flyfishing in 3 years. Living in Mesa, AZ makes it a little more work than when I grew up as a kid in Utah and could walk to the local streams. Work, and life has pulled me in other directions. So I was planning to take my 14 foot Larson boat to Lee's Ferry and launch Friday. My brother who lives in SLC, Utah was going to drive down to meet me.
We were planning on camping on the upper sand bars and really looking forward to fishing until Monday when we would have to return home.

So, what chance would I have of launching prior to the shutdown Friday midnight EST, would the rangers ride upriver to throw us out?
Or, would we likely be locked in on Monday morning when we would return to try to leave?

Right now, I'm PO'd about the whole lack of leadership in our great country.

Possibly we could meet over at the San Juan River instead and walk.

Any other suggestions if the Fery is closed to get in some great fishing and camping together aroung the Southern UT, Northern AZ border?

THank you for your assistance!

Tight Lines!:confused:


mountainhrse 04-07-2011 03:22 PM

oh the US forest lands probably won't close, so off Kaibab Plateau off highway 89 A to North Rim Grand Canyon you can hike into North canyon Creek(Apache trout), Thuder river and Tapeats Creek(Rainbows and cutthroats), Bright Angel Creek world class trout stream with rainbows and cuttrhoats, also drive to the east on the navajo Reservation good camping and trout fishing in the Chuska Mountains(Tsaile Lake, Wheatfields in the pines at 8000 feet, clear of snow by now, don't forget White mountain Apche Reservation with 1000 of good trout streams with Apache trout and most lakes are ice free now do to mild winter, Sunrise should be awesome for 10 lb plus Browns, 3 pound brookies, just some more ideas....

rdf1212 04-07-2011 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainhrse (Post 98187)
oh the US forest lands probably won't close, so off Kaibab Plateau off highway 89 A to North Rim Grand Canyon you can hike into North canyon Creek(Apache trout), Thuder river and Tapeats Creek(Rainbows and cutthroats), Bright Angel Creek world class trout stream with rainbows and cuttrhoats, also drive to the east on the navajo Reservation good camping and trout fishing in the Chuska Mountains(Tsaile Lake, Wheatfields in the pines at 8000 feet, clear of snow by now, don't forget White mountain Apche Reservation with 1000 of good trout streams with Apache trout and most lakes are ice free now do to mild winter, Sunrise should be awesome for 10 lb plus Browns, 3 pound brookies, just some more ideas....

I must have never been to that sunrise lake.

DLBanshee 04-07-2011 03:32 PM

Government's land???
 
I have never posted on here before but this is one of those things that really bothers me. This is not old England where you have to be a lord or government official to use the natural resources but it seems to me that it is quickly becoming that way. I am a pretty conservative guy when it comes to spending (even more so when someone else is spending MY money) but which ever party has been in power in Washington for the last few decades has spent more and more money and taken more and more control of our freedoms. Throw all the bums out and lets start over.

Seldomseen 04-07-2011 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhickfish (Post 98175)
The democrats acctually are in favor of 30 billion in cuts instead of 66billion. Sounds like meeting halfway to me.

Here is what is funny about this. The difference between 30 and 66 billion is trivial when compared to a 3 trillion dollar budget.

If my math is correct, that is fraction of a percent both sides are claiming the high ground over.

N_AZ_MAN 04-07-2011 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainhrse (Post 98187)
oh the US forest lands probably won't close, so off Kaibab Plateau off highway 89 A to North Rim Grand Canyon you can hike into North canyon Creek(Apache trout), Thuder river and Tapeats Creek(Rainbows and cutthroats), Bright Angel Creek world class trout stream with rainbows and cuttrhoats, also drive to the east on the navajo Reservation good camping and trout fishing in the Chuska Mountains(Tsaile Lake, Wheatfields in the pines at 8000 feet, clear of snow by now, don't forget White mountain Apche Reservation with 1000 of good trout streams with Apache trout and most lakes are ice free now do to mild winter, Sunrise should be awesome for 10 lb plus Browns, 3 pound brookies, just some more ideas....

You are probably right that you can enter National Forest lands during a lockout/furlough but don't expect to be able to use campgrounds or stop in at a visitors center etc...

So since I pay taxes I "own" all federal lands and can do whatever the heck I please there? Wow! News to me. On that note, since I pay property taxes does that mean I can do whatever the heck I want on my property? I'll let my city/county officials know that when they come and tell me I can't operate a strip club in my front yard or sell beer out of my garage......

MudBug 04-07-2011 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhickfish (Post 98175)
The democrats acctually are in favor of 30 billion in cuts instead of 66billion. Sounds like meeting halfway to me.

I have spent my whole life watching the Republicans meet the democrats half way and every time it grew our government's power, cost, and debt. As a conservative it amounts to me watching the liberals take over both branches of the government.

This is where I am now.

http://www.jtbourne.com/wp-content/u...l-not-pass.jpg

AzMandella 04-08-2011 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhickfish (Post 98175)
The democrats acctually are in favor of 30 billion in cuts instead of 66billion. Sounds like meeting halfway to me.

Although both sides are acting childish the thing I see is the fact that 33 or 60 bil is nothing in the realm of cuts. It's like Donald Trump cutting his spending by 10 cents. The rep put forth 250 bil in cuts and then came down to 60 bil and the left will not even go there. So meeting in the middle would have been 125 bil. And lets not forget that O promised to reduce the budget deficit by half in his first term yet his proposed budget is 3 times the 2008 budget. And the fact that the Dems were supposed to pass a budget 8 monthas ago when they had full control of all three branches. And they didn't even try to pass a budget. It seems to me that the right is keeping thier campaign promise to cut spending and they are going to force O to keep his.:confused:

Mr.Smith 04-08-2011 07:30 AM

Law enforcement will be considered "Essential personnel" They will be out there to ensure people do not trespass or vandalize. If you sneak in and something happens you could be on your own for up to three weeks. No government workers means nobody to pick up after the slobs and take out the trash. Imagine a bunch of trespassers and and no-one to clean up. The picture in your mind should look like the situation out at the Aqua Fria a couple years ago.

As a government worker I am facing furlough. I'll survive. The situation sucks but it isn't the end of the world and there are other places to fish.

bhickfish 04-08-2011 08:40 AM

I think the political atmosphere right now is so childish that each party has to try "win" every issue. I mean I can't even name a congress person that votes for their constituents over their party every time. I don't even know what is included in the cuts to be honest. I mean has anybody read it? Part of the cuts could be reduction in spending for the USFWS stocking programs and some of you guys would just be for it because one party or the other is for it, and then you would be pissed and blame the goverment afterwards.

Ryan.Logsdon 04-08-2011 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seldomseen (Post 98192)
Here is what is funny about this. The difference between 30 and 66 billion is trivial when compared to a 3 trillion dollar budget.

If my math is correct, that is fraction of a percent both sides are claiming the high ground over.

Agreed. This whole discussion is about nothing but scoring points politically. Anyone that can read a pie chart understands that it is Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and Defense budget that is out of control and is completely unsustainable but no one wants to touch that right now because it will hurt everyone and kill political careers because it will be unpopular across the isles.

Going after NPR, EPA and Planned Parenthood is a purely political maneuver. Those programs are a fraction of a fraction of a small part of the budget, it would be like saying, "Man, my credit card debt keeps getting higher and my house is going to foreclose. I'm going to stop giving my pocket change to that charity box when I'm at the grocery store."

azflyfishing 04-08-2011 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seldomseen (Post 98192)
Here is what is funny about this. The difference between 30 and 66 billion is trivial when compared to a 3 trillion dollar budget.

If my math is correct, that is fraction of a percent both sides are claiming the high ground over.

Unfortunately this is exactly right. Neither amount is going to stem the tide of goverment spending. Now if they were cutting 2 trillion that would probably be worth the fight to decide where the cuts should be.

mharri 04-08-2011 09:01 AM

Problem is that the 3 trillion dollar budget is made up of clumps, some bigger and some smaller than others... you have to start somewhere so that the cuts collectively start to make a meaningful difference.

mharri 04-08-2011 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainhrse (Post 98186)
can't you get a ride to the 200 foot wide Salt river or Verde, or drive 45 minutes to the 15 Mogollon Rim Trout streams availible up highway 87?? I have been all over the Wastch range, and incidentlly I'm from Montana, and the Mesa/Phoenix metro area is as close to great trout fishing as most of Salt Lake City, Provo etc, and Arizona probably has smallmouth bass and channel catfish in the same pools... You don't have to drive all the way to Lees ferry,
thatmakes no sense with the East Verde, White and Black Rivers, Haigler, tonto creek, even tiny Workmen Creek in the Sierra Achas is relatively close to mesa, just a thought...

I don't know if I can agree with this one :)

Having lived in Provo for a long time, the fishing is MUCH better within the same amount of driving. 15-20 minutes here is fishing the Salt, there it would be the Provo or something up Spanish Fork Canyon. 1 1/2 - 2 hours here is something up on the rim, there it would be the Strawberry or Duchesne river where I was almost guaranteed to catch a 20" brown (caught at least one every time I went).

I know this isn't what this thread is about, and I'm not saying that the fishing here is terrible compared to UT, but I don't think it's a close call. The only comparison would be if you equate the skinny stuff in UT with the streams you referenced, but once you include the bigger UT stuff with the bigger fish there is a huge difference in my opinion.

AzMandella 04-08-2011 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan.Logsdon (Post 98217)
Agreed. This whole discussion is about nothing but scoring points politically. Anyone that can read a pie chart understands that it is Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and Defense budget that is out of control and is completely unsustainable but no one wants to touch that right now because it will hurt everyone and kill political careers because it will be unpopular across the isles.

Going after NPR, EPA and Planned Parenthood is a purely political maneuver. Those programs are a fraction of a fraction of a small part of the budget, it would be like saying, "Man, my credit card debt keeps getting higher and my house is going to foreclose. I'm going to stop giving my pocket change to that charity box when I'm at the grocery store."

You left out welfare and illeagal aliens. These two alone could wipe out a half a trillion in spending. I'm not sure that this time it is about scoring points. The incoming winners of the last election promised thier constituants to cut spending and you have to start somewhere. This in my opinion is alot like George Washington crossing the Delaware. It was a victory but not a major one. But it was enough of a victory to rally the troops to fight harder that were getting down from loosing all the time.

jrlyman 04-08-2011 12:50 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JSBh...feature=artist

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cHy4...feature=artist

aztip 04-08-2011 01:08 PM

From Duck Island
 
I'm not leaving until they drag me kicking and screaming, or sunday, which ever comes first, because I gotta work monday. Maybe they will lock me in, I've got enough food for another week if I start eating fish. its been windy, but the fishing is excellent. Black and silver zebra midges are all you really need.

Think of all those in the middle of the grand canyon on float trips, it's not like they are going to helicopter them all out. I have no doubt I'll be able to finish my trip.

A shut down, which is mostly posturing on both sides will have a serious economic impact on places like this and not just Lees Ferry Anglers, but motels in Flagstaff, people who work at the grand canyon and the guys who service the toilets at the campgrounds.

I'm done with lunch, I'm going fishing.

Tying2Fly 04-08-2011 01:20 PM

Well, I will bet that if the Fed gov shuts down and it goes for awhile.... that my next paycheck will still have the federal and state income taxes taken out as well as all the other s**t like SS taxes and all. With that said as the norm here, we are paying for government services that we wont be getting. Or use of the federal recreation areas that we are still paying for but wont get to use. :mad: It seams to me that our fed gov or should we say federal corporation wont do what other corporations do when they have downturns of income... first they ask the workers to either take a pay-cut or face a layoff. How many of our exaulted politions will suggest taking a pay-cut you think? Maybe it is time the general public suggests a change in political office attributes. I think all newly elected positions are only an internship untill they prove their ability to get a passing review... if not give a turn to the next runner-up. :confused:

Darwin 04-08-2011 05:59 PM

Dwight Eisenhower was last Republican President to preside over a balanced budget. He had a balanced budget in 1956 and 1957. Since then, there have been two presidents to preside over balanced budgets, LBJ in 1969 and Clinton in 1998 through 2001. During the last 40 years there have been five budget surpluses, all five were under Democratic Presidents: 1969, 1998, 1999, 2000, and 2001.

Closing down over 50,000 manufacturing plants in the last 10 years, giving tax breaks to Mobil, Exon, GE.... has nothing to do with our revenue problems. The people of this country are being screwed by Large Corporations and the politicians they have purchased.

long ago 04-08-2011 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darwin (Post 98230)
Dwight Eisenhower was last Republican President to preside over a balanced budget. He had a balanced budget in 1956 and 1957. Since then, there have been two presidents to preside over balanced budgets, LBJ in 1969 and Clinton in 1998 through 2001. During the last 40 years there have been five budget surpluses, all five were under Democratic Presidents: 1969, 1998, 1999, 2000, and 2001.

Closing down over 50,000 manufacturing plants in the last 10 years, giving tax breaks to Mobil, Exon, GE.... has nothing to do with our revenue problems. The people of this country are being screwed by Large Corporations and the politicians they have purchased.

Thank you:drunk:


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