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-   -   It's weird (http://www.azflyandtie.com/flyforum/showthread.php?t=15726)

Litespeed1 12-20-2017 08:46 AM

It's weird
 
It's weird.

I consider myself a pretty good at finding and catching browns yet I haven't caught a brown trout in any Arizona stream for two years (other than those designated for brown trout).
They've been officially eliminated from our non brown waters. Bummer.

joe 12-20-2017 11:02 AM

According to Nature's Way of doing things, the heritage brown trout of Europe should not be in the USA.

M Lopez 12-21-2017 06:02 PM

What streams have you fished expecting to catch a brown but haven't?

RIMFISHER 12-22-2017 08:00 PM

Litespeed, still need to meet up. I've come to find the Browns still exist but they are 0-14. Kidding of course but their feeding patterns in a lot of the streams have changed
since they are constantly being attacked. I caught a couple + 18ers over turkey day that I would have never thought existed where I was fishing.

DrLogik 12-27-2017 06:52 PM

In many parts of the country where they have designated "Wild Trout" waters, there are efforts by the respective State DNR's to weed Brown trout out of those waters as they are considered an invasive non-indigenous fish. Has this been going on in Arizona?

joe 12-28-2017 10:45 AM

The White Mountain Tribe has been sucessful removing Brown trout mechanically above fish barriers but it takes several years and many passes/year to work. They have been doing this for almost 10 years that I know of.

BunsbertMontcroffEsq 12-29-2017 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe (Post 171276)
According to Nature's Way of doing things, the heritage brown trout of Europe should not be in the USA.

Neither should Anglos, but we're here :- P

joe 12-29-2017 10:31 AM

BME,

Are you talking about Anglos that are uneducated in fisheries or the Anglos that are educated in fisheries???

BunsbertMontcroffEsq 12-29-2017 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe (Post 171335)
BME,

Are you talking about Anglos that are uneducated in fisheries or the Anglos that are educated in fisheries???

hi joe, just a bad joke based on the observation that anglos aren't native to the americas either, a bit like the brown trout : )

Litespeed1 01-12-2018 08:12 AM

:)

My intent on beginning this thread was to proclaim there are no Brown trout in any streams or rivers other than those designated for brown trout so that any agencies lurking on site would feel they have accomplished their goal. Their goal being to eradicate this state of browns. I write this because I feel this site is used as a resource.

RIMFISHER I am thumbs up for hitting some "non brown" creeks in the near future with you!

joe 01-12-2018 10:31 AM

The goal of the heritage Brown trout of Europe is to eradicate native USA species of any fish they encounter. The Apache trout were almost eradicated by Brown trout from the White Mountain Apache tribal land until fish barriers were built and the Browns were mechanically removed above the barriers. I have a large power point presentation explaining this.
New Mexico is extremely close to having their heritage Rio Grande Cutthroats, in the Rio Santa Barbara River, eradicated by Brown trout because NM has done nothing to stop the Brown trout invasion there.

stoneflynut 01-14-2018 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe (Post 171417)
The goal of the heritage Brown trout of Europe is to eradicate native USA species of any fish they encounter. The Apache trout were almost eradicated by Brown trout from the White Mountain Apache tribal land until fish barriers were built and the Browns were mechanically removed above the barriers. I have a large power point presentation explaining this.
New Mexico is extremely close to having their heritage Rio Grande Cutthroats, in the Rio Santa Barbara River, eradicated by Brown trout because NM has done nothing to stop the Brown trout invasion there.

Hybridization of Apache and Gila trout with various strains of rainbows also made a large contribution to the decline of natives.

M Lopez 01-14-2018 04:54 PM

Litespeed1, if you think agencies "lurk" mysteriously on this forum to find some hidden population of brown trout that we can kill, you are sadly mistaken. We come on here to help, answer questions, educate, and generally communicate with anglers.

You are correct that this site is used as a resource, but not as you infer. This site is a great resource for talking about fishing, learning new tips, and mentoring others.

And to say any agency's goal is to eradicate this state of browns is just plain wrong. Give me a call sometime (AZGFD, Pinetop, 928-532-3692) or PM to me and I'd gladly take the time to explain exactly how trout are managed in this state. From your tone in this thread, I think it would surprise you.

PaysonLazerLiner 01-14-2018 07:08 PM

The good news is that there are brown trout in almost every stream in Rim Country. The second good news is that many of the areas that hold browns are either somewhat remote or are very near housing developments so I'm hoping, based on the Haigler Creek homeowners opposition to the poisoning of upper Haigler, that the agencies won't be able to execute their plan. Considering that original browns were intentionally stocked by AZG&F many decades ago, as far back as about 1960's, usually carried into remote streams by mule, it's quite the irony that we dumb flyfishers have to hope to protect them from the bureaucracies..

Litespeed1 01-15-2018 02:57 PM

M Lopez,

I did start this thread somewhat facetiously. My apologies for characterizing "agencies" in such a bad light. Sincerely. I was not writing about you or Kelly. Really.
But....I think there actually is a Federal mandate to eliminate brown trout from our waters. In some cases I support these efforts 100%. I sincerely do. But not all waters.

So I declared the state is BROWN trout free. I hadn't caught any browns because they are all gone....and therefore I wasn't going to post any more pics because there would no longer be pics....
because I'm not catching any browns because there are no browns.....

There have been biologists who through gathering location information from THIS SITE summarized the brown trout populations in our state waters for use in implementing a removal plan.
You are correct. "LURKING" was not nice nor accurate.
They were in PLAIN SIGHT.

mynameisjohne 01-16-2018 02:45 PM

M Lopez,

Jus curious. What is YOUR position on attempting to remove Brown Trout from the section of Colorado River known as Lees Ferry?

bhickfish 01-16-2018 03:33 PM

It is a real bummer to see people who are trying to help improve fisheries being treated so poorly. It is even more disappointing to see that people don't want to contact fisheries biologists to get real information on the management of fisheries they are interested in. Fisheries biologists are experts in their field and have a lot of tools to work with. So if you start to catch a lot of large Brown Trout at a fishery, you can be sure biologists have already seen the same trend in the data they collected during sampling.

State agency fish biologists get their paychecks from the sale of fishing licenses and gear. It is in their interest to maximize the potential of sport fisheries when it does not conflict with important native, threatened or endangered species. Agencies have to find a balance between maximizing sport fisheries that produce revenue and complying with federal laws protecting native species. The problem is that Arizona has very little trout water to start with and two native trout species too manage for, so these conflicts are more acutely felt by anglers than most other places in the west where trout water is vastly more abundant and their is greater opportunity to provide a diversity of native and nonnative fisheries.

jimc 01-16-2018 06:33 PM

Ok,

Enough 'chirping' back and forth.
So, where are the Brown Trout?
That's was the point of the original thread.
And I would like to know.....

joe 01-16-2018 11:08 PM

Jim,

Where to Catch Brown Trout (*indicates Wild Trout eligible locations)
Black River*
Little Colorado River*
West Clear Creek*
West Fork Oak Creek*
Oak Creek*
Chevelon Creek*
Chevelon Lake*
River Reservoir*
Upper Wet Beaver Creek*
East Clear Creek*
Canyon Creek*
Horton Creek
Lower Haigler Creek*
Middle Tank
Elk Hill Tank
JD Dam Tank
Kinnikinick Lake
Santa Fe Lake
Lynx Lake
Rose Canyon Lake

Litespeed1 01-18-2018 09:16 AM

...starting this thread really backfired on me......

My thought was to proclaim all the browns had been removed from the state so that the "powers that be" could move on to the next state to remove their evil browns.

It's all good though.

Tight lines all.

jimc 01-18-2018 10:41 PM

Brown trout locations
 
Thank you, Joe.
I will keep that list handy when I travel outside of Phoenix.
I noticed that none of these bodies of water are within an hour of Phoenix.
I suppose that's how it should be.

BigPoppa 01-19-2018 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M Lopez (Post 171425)
Litespeed1, if you think agencies "lurk" mysteriously on this forum to find some hidden population of brown trout that we can kill, you are sadly mistaken. We come on here to help, answer questions, educate, and generally communicate with anglers.

You are correct that this site is used as a resource, but not as you infer. This site is a great resource for talking about fishing, learning new tips, and mentoring others.

And to say any agency's goal is to eradicate this state of browns is just plain wrong. Give me a call sometime (AZGFD, Pinetop, 928-532-3692) or PM to me and I'd gladly take the time to explain exactly how trout are managed in this state. From your tone in this thread, I think it would surprise you.

M. Lopez I can't speak for everybody but it is nice to know that we have a fly fisherman in your position!!! Coming from a fellow fly fisherman who fishes mostly in Az thanks for your insight and contribution to this sight .


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